Transcript: MaYaND 005: CB 05: The Secret of Shadow Ranch
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[Sound cue: Eerie piano tune reminiscent of the Nancy Drew PC game soundtracks]
Colleen: Hello and welcome to Me and You and Nancy Drew, the podcast where I, Colleen-
Meghan: -and I, Meghan-
Colleen: -are both a little bit under the weather and talk about Nancy Drew. The books, the games, the TV show eventually. Um, please pardon my voice. I am trying to avoid the sounds that came out right before this recording because those were horrible.
Meghan: They weren't that bad.
Colleen: They were pretty not-good. Yeah! So this week, we read the fifth book of the original series, The Secret of Shadow Ranch, which- That's one of your favorites, right?
Meghan: Yeah, it was my personal favorite when I was in, like, fourth and fifth grade.
Colleen: Did you remember the plot?
Meghan: I remembered nothing about this book other than [that] there was [were] horses in it.
Colleen: Great. And that's important.
Meghan: And I was a horse girl all the way. I read all [of] Marguerite Henry's books. So I think this might be- This book cover might be the reason that I chose to read the Nancy Drew books. After I read all of, like, Misty of Chincoteague, then I saw this one, I was like, “I would like to read this book.”
Colleen: “It has a horse! Maybe even two!”
Meghan: “But! I can't start at number five. We must begin at the beginning.” And then I ended up really loving the series and just blew through every one of them that we had in my school library.
Colleen: Perfect.
Meghan: And remembered absolutely none of it, as it turns out. So it's very exciting to sit down and read this one. Did you remember the plot going in?
Colleen: I did not. I did not remember the book plot, but I played this game quite a few times. This is the one where I specifically remember making my dad go to work where there was internet and print out the GameBoomers, like, walkthrough because... Okay, the most frustrating part of this game, and everyone who's played this game will agree with me, is that you can get a fatal error for picking a not-quite-ripe vegetable.
Meghan: Oh my goodness.
Colleen: You can get sent home, and it counts as a “Fatal error: Try again.” And you get, like, a second chance, which is great, but after turning in like 90%-ripe tomatoes, like, five days in a row, and getting sent home five days in a row…like, it is not a fun time.
Meghan: So, the plot of the game, then, is different than the book.
Colleen: It's pretty similar. There's less, um, I want to say less rock-slidey-type horseback riding. There's a little bit of horseback riding. Almost all the characters overlap. There's just, like, fewer cowboys. The aunt and uncle of Bess and George are phone contacts, as are Bess and George themselves. But, like, the Dirk and Frances part is there. The- Tex, Dave and Shorty are all there. So there's, like, a little bit added, a little bit taken out, but it's pretty much the same, which is cool.
Meghan: That's awesome.
[Sound Cue: Synthesized pentatonic scale underneath the spoken words “Drew Haiku”]
Colleen: Are you ready for a Drew Haiku?
Meghan: I am ready for my Drew Haiku.
Colleen: Hit me.
Meghan: “Double mystery with / Cowboys, horses, art, and / Hidden treasure chest.”
Colleen: Ooh. I hit some of those notes.
Meghan: I didn't even put Nancy in it this time.
Colleen: You didn't. You didn't say “Nancy's fifth-”
Meghan: Fifth case. Nancy's fifth case. I didn’t.
Colleen: “Nancy Drew's fifth case,” it would have to be. I'm so proud of you. That's a nice change in your writing style.
Meghan: I know, I tried! Just in time for us to be done with haikus.
Colleen: Yes. Are you so relieved?
Meghan: I am apprehensive. I'm like, “Okay, I got into the groove of the haikus.” It's like, “Let's switch it up.”
Colleen: Okay, here's my haiku. “Ghost horse and cowboys. / The suspicious one did it. / Plus old love story.”
Meghan: Ooh, I love that.
Colleen: Thank you. Thank you.
[Sound Cue: Clock ticks underneath the spoken words “Thirty-Second Recap”]
Colleen: Let's get that timer going because I do want to talk about the plot. We kind of talked a little bit about it.
Meghan: I can go first.
Colleen: Fabulous. Go for it. Ready, set, go. [clock ticks underneath the book summary]
Meghan: Nancy meets Bess and George. Except she didn't just meet them. But it's for the first time that we meet them, and they go to their aunt and uncle's house, and they live on a horse ranch now, and everything keeps going wrong, including a mystery glowy horse that shows up, and then destruction happens in its wake. Well, not in its wake. It just happens in the background. And there's also a missing artist that is also the uncle of Bess and George and this other girl, and it seems very irrelevant, until it is relevant, and they slide on some rocks, and they find a hidden treasure that has to do with an old-timey love story. [ticking stops, clock bongs]
Colleen: Time. That was really good.
Meghan: I didn't do too bad!
Colleen: I think you've covered most of it, honestly.
Meghan: All right.
Colleen: Count me in.
Meghan: Okay. Three, two, one, go.
Colleen: [clock ticks underneath the book summary] Uhhh, Bess and George's aunt and uncle have a ranch, and there's a ghost horse, and every time the ghost horse comes, then destruction follows, and that's, like, an old legend. And Dirk Valentine is this old-timey, like, renegade guy, and he got arrested before giving his love to somebody in the form of gold hearts, which are hidden on the property, and that's what, like, ten different people are there for, and there's some cowboys, and they go to a dance and make a chocolate cake and they rescue an artist and there's an attempt at kidnapping but not a successful one. [ticking stops, clock bongs] The end.
Meghan: Yay!
Colleen: I don't think I got everything, but I got some stuff.
Meghan: I feel like between the two of us, we got a lot of it
Colleen: Between the two of us. There's quite a lot going on. It's pretty fun though. Do you want to do a limerick for the next five instead of a Drew Haiku?
Meghan: Limerick sounds good.
Colleen: Excellent, let's do it. But yeah, no, there's, like, a lot happening in this. There's also, like, a million just…suspicious guys. And I kept trying to be, like, “Oh, this guy with the hat is probably the guy that had the kerchief earlier.” And I'm like… At some point I stopped keeping track of, like, “Listen, there's gonna be suspicious guys.”
Meghan: The tall man in black with the hat. Again.
Colleen: In life, there's always suspicious men. You know? How am I supposed to keep track of them all? I can’t. I just can't.
Meghan: Yeah, there was a lot. There definitely was a lot going on in here, and I'm excited to talk more about it.
Colleen: Yeah.
[Sound cue: High-pitched whistle-like note descending in pitch underneath the stretched-out, also-descending-in-pitch spoken word “Cliffhangers!”]
Meghan: So, Colleen, do you have a favorite cliffhanger?
Colleen: Yes. And I'm curious if we picked the same one, because I know you love a good screech, a good scream, a good shriek. Did we really? Yes!
Meghan: We agree. Just because I see the page that you are open to in your book.
Colleen: Yes. It is in the chapter titled “Warning Rattle,” which I really thought was going to be, like, a lot more dangerous, like, “Hey, there's a rattlesnake.” But no, someone just left the rattle of a rattlesnake, which on its own doesn't do anything.
Meghan: Just as a threat.
Colleen: As a threat, in Nancy's bag. There was [were], like, three threats as she was on her way to Shadow Ranch, and one of them was just a disembodied rattle. It wasn't that scary. Anyway, the end of this chapter is, “The next instant, an unearthly shriek split the air and someone seized her!” Exclamation point!
Meghan: Aaaaa!
Colleen: Exactly. It was a pretty earthly shriek, honestly, from you. But that's okay. I'll allow it. But it turns out, it was the cook, who was also freaked out, because they both heard something and they both were sneaking around to see who the intruder was, and then they both, like, grabbed each other, which was great. It was anticlimactic.
Meghan: It was, but just the way the book is printed, this is one of the few cliffhangers that ends on the page, and you have to turn it to get to the next one.
Colleen: It's true.
Meghan: So it's even more dramatic.
Colleen: Yeah, this is an easier place to stop.
Meghan: It's a literal page-turner.
Colleen: It is.
Meghan: I felt like this book, though, in general, had a lot of tension and a lot of spookiness.
Colleen: Yes. I didn't rely on the last sentence of a chapter to keep me going. I was like, “I need to know what's going on.” We've got, like, ten irons in the fire. There is a ghost horse. There's no water.
Meghan: There's no water!
Colleen: Shorty the Cook said he refilled their water. Like- That was, like, five different times [where] there was no water. Shorty the Cook said he refilled their, like, gallon jug that they keep in the car for their long drive. And he didn't. So they ran out of water for that, and then they need water for the radiator, because it overheated because of the dust storm, and then the pump got sabotaged, and then, like, what else? The electricity went out so the pump didn't work.
Meghan: They cut the phone line.
Colleen: They cut the phone line. There was, like, a lot going on!
Meghan: Yeah!
Colleen: Plus the ghost horse keeps coming back.
Meghan: And there's, like, two mysterious men in black wandering around.
Colleen: Yeah! And the uncle's missing.
Meghan: Yeah. And all the cowboys were very suspicious at one point. Every single one of the cowboys was super sus.
Colleen: Yeah.
Meghan: And I was alone in my house at night reading this. And I was just, like-
Colleen: “What if the ghost comes right now?”
Meghan: “What was that noise? What was that noise!?” I'm like, “This is an elementary-level book, Meghan. Calm down. This is okay.” But yeah, I mean, obviously this just feels very indicative of a lot of the tension that's throughout the book.
Colleen: It's true.
Meghan: It was very spooky.
Colleen: I also do like that when we see that it was Miss… Miss… Mrs. Thurmond, the cook that grabbed her, “She wore an old-fashioned nightgown and her head bristled with curlers.” And I didn't write that in Fashion Watch. I just thought it was a great description.
Meghan: Yes, I also did not write that in Fashion Watch.
[Sound cue: Ocean waves crash underneath the spoken words “Ship of the Week”]
Meghan: So I'll go first on my ship of the week. While this is the first mention of Ned-
Colleen: It is!
Meghan: One single name drop sprinkled in. I feel like it's the obvious choice. But I- My ship of the week is Nancy and Dave the cowboy.
Colleen: Honestly, that's so fair.
Meghan: I thought, like, it was a good almost, like, enemies-to-lovers.
Colleen: Yeah!
Meghan: Obviously, it didn't actually end up with lovers, but they start out, like, really not trusting each other, and he's, like, very antagonistic. ‘Cause he's suspicious of everyone. Nancy's suspicious of everyone. And they end up, like, earning each other's trust. And, like, she really depends on him to be a part of all these different plans.
Colleen: And to, like, keep secrets of, like, “I need you to drive me to the sheriff, but not tell the other, like, ranch hands that we're going to the sheriff.”
Meghan: “I need you to watch for my fire signal.” And he's, like, super paying attention. He notices when it goes wrong and has everyone ready. So, like, I don't know. I thought that that was cute.
Colleen: And they go to the dance.
Meghan: They go to the dance together. So.
Colleen: And she's like, “If you need to, like, not-” Because then something comes up and he's like, “I need to go take care of these horses.” Because they just got a bunch of palominos. Is that how we say it? I was never a horse girl.
Meghan: Palominos, yeah. I was a horse girl.
Colleen: So I rely on you for this. But then they got some palominos and then somebody cut the fence in, like, thirty places, and then when the, when the ghost horse came by, they all spooked and ran off, because there was no fence. Which is fair. And so she was like, “Oh, if you need to, like, skip the dance and take care of that, that's fine.” And I appreciate, like, an understanding of like, “Some things come first.” But he did put her first, which was cool.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: I like that. I'm on board with that. In the game, he doesn't really start antagonistic. One of the first things he says is, “Got a steady back home?”Aand you have the option to tell him “No [I don’t have a steady].”
Meghan: Oooh!
Colleen: And then in future games, he can be your phone wallpaper, which I feel like Ned would get a little jealous of, but it's not like he ever is around her. because she's always gone.
Meghan: Yeah! She's always gone on an adventure somewhere.
Colleen: Tell me more about this Ned mention, because I kind of wanted to point something out about it.
Meghan: So it said, “Oh, he'll be back from Europe by the time I come back.”
Colleen: “-and finish this sweater that I've been knitting for him.” Who was she knitting-
Meghan: No, she was knitting it for her dad.
Colleen: You're right. She was. At the beginning of the book, she said, “My dad saw this yarn and loved it so much that I thought I was going to make this sweater for myself, but my dad loved the yarn so much that I decided to make it for him.” And by the end of the book, the sweater's for Ned, which brings up some weird Electra-complex-
Meghan: Wait, is it really?
Colleen: 100%. I went back and double, triple-checked. I was like, “No freaking way.” At least in my copy.
Meghan: That's what I'm wondering now if we have, like…
Colleen: In the beginning it's for her dad and at the end she's like, “Work on the sweater-” [gasp] Yours says “Dad.” Mine says “Ned.”
Meghan: What?!
Colleen: Oh my god.
Meghan: That's why I was like, “Ned was only mentioned once.”
Colleen: That was my plot hole because- Wait, where is he mentioned otherwise then?
Meghan: He's mentioned when they're teasing Nancy about Dave. And they're like, “Oh won't Ned, like-”
Colleen: “Ned (who we never talked about before) will be back from Europe (a place we've never heard of)-” That's not true.
Meghan: “We've never heard of.”
Colleen: I mean, not really.
Meghan: I mean, is he somehow also there with- Oh shoot.
Colleen: Helen's [fiancé]?
Meghan: Helen!
Colleen: Where's Helen, by the way?
Meghan: I know!
Colleen: Where's my actual ship, Nancy and Helen? Helen's not even mentioned, and she's like, “Yeah, my best friends Bess and George.” And as excited as I was to see Bess and George, where's Helen?
Meghan: I put “Ummm, Helen is Nancy's BFF” in the Miscellaneous Mysteries.
Colleen: And I need to check in on her weird suspicious husband or fiancé, and I need to see, like, Nancy be a bridesmaid. No mention of Helen. It's just like, “Oh yeah, Bess and George, Nancy's best friends ever, and they're cousins.” And I'm like, “Great. I love seeing them. However, what the heck?” Unacceptable. Yeah. As far as I have- Ned is mentioned, in that he's in Europe, but, like, only in, like, “He'll be back from Europe.” They never said why he's in Europe or who he is to Nancy. And we know because we know the series, and it's implied that it's, like, a love interest, but it doesn't really say that. And then at the end, it's, like, “Oh, what are you going to do now, Nancy, without a mystery to solve?” She's like, “I'm going to work on the sweater I'm knitting for Ned.” And George knew that “Nancy and mystery were never far apart” and gave a sigh of mock sadness and said, “Poor Ned. I hope he doesn't need that sweater very soon.”
Meghan: And that- Yeah! Mine says “I hope your dad doesn't need that sweater soon.”
Colleen: What a weird change! When was yours printed?
Meghan: This is- This looks exactly like when I read it as a kid. ‘93.
Colleen: I got ‘65 over here.
Meghan: Yeah, here's the first- “And what'll poor Ned do?’ George teased. Nancy grinned. ‘I’ll be home by the time he gets back from Europe.”
Colleen: What do you mean, back from Europe? What's he doing in Europe? We have no context for Ned except for that it must be a romantic interest because it's brought up in the context of her flirting with Dave.
Meghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Colleen: Like, Bess and George are intro'd of, like, “Yeah, yeah, they're best friends, but here's Bess and she looks like this. We're gonna fat-shame her the whole book. Here's George and she looks like this and she's not a lesbian. Don't worry. She's a tomboy.” That's all I have to say about that. That's not true. I'll come back during Drew's Clues. But yeah.
Meghan: So what's your ship of the week?
Colleen: I really liked Alice and, I think, Jack.
Meghan: Yes! Oh my gosh.
Colleen: Bess plays matchmaker and sets up their little cousin (she's, like, fourteen) with a fifteen-year-old brother of one of the ranch hands, because Nancy, George, and Bess are going on, like, a triple date to this, like, little dance in town. And it's kind of fun. It's very cute. And Alice is like, “Oh, I wish I had someone to go with.” And Bess gets, like, a twinkle in her eye, and George is like, “Oh, you love playing matchmaker. You love playing Cupid.” And then she, like, kind of sets it all up with the ranch hand, and they ask Alice's uncle or dad or whatever for permission. And he's like, “Yeah, yeah, for sure, have fun.” So I thought that was really cute.
Meghan: And because I also had that as my backup- Jack, when they're, like- All the grown members of this, like, quadruple date are, like, worrying about everything that's going on at Shadow Ranch. Jack, who, has no context, says, “I don't know what this is all about, but no one will get Alice away from me until I turn her over to Nancy after the dance.”
Colleen: I think that's so nice.
Meghan: It is so, so sweet.
Colleen: I love that. Oh I did really like, though- My backup was Bud and Bess. ‘Cause Bud's trying to teach Bess how to, like, rope a steer and he's like, “Come get me, come get me.” And in the picture she's having just, like, the best time. She is grinning. She does end up roping her own horse and not Bud. She's not very good at it, but she has a good time.
Meghan: Yeah, that was cute.
Colleen: Yeah. And he's putting up little steer horns. So cute. I forgot- I forgot, because I read, like, the first three chapters last night, and then my dad called and then I, like, talked to him for, like, an hour and a half, and I read the rest of the book today. So my initial ship of the week was George and me. It's just me gazing at her. It's a one-way ship. But the first thing George does is like, “Hey, Nancy, let me get your bags for you.” And is, like, lifting them up on her shoulder. And then she's like, “Get in the car. It's 150 miles of the hottest, thirstiest ride you ever took.” And I was like, “Yes! My girl!”
Meghan: Is that the part where she calls Nancy “pardner”?
Colleen: “Pardner”?
Meghan: “Pardner.”
Colleen: “Pardner.” “That's where we're headed, pardner.” It's so cute. And like, George and Bess are cousins, but George is not related to Nancy. We can just do whatever we want with that. And she's definitely not related to me. So this is great. Sorry, I just had to chime back in because I'm in love with George.
[Sound Cue: Kitchen tools clink underneath the spoken words “Cooking Corner”]
Colleen: Okay, I'm excited about Cooking Corner because there was actually some cool stuff this week. I think one time near the beginning of this, like, podcast creation, you were like, “Let's make one of the recipes each week.” And then I was like, “That sounds awesome and hard. And also I don't know what half these things are.” Like a floating island.
Meghan: Still want to make one.
Colleen: That sounds so good. Now that I know it's not from, like, a[n] anime. I think that anime food is great. However, the floating island I was thinking of was a land mass, but. So, like, page four, Bess is, like, so stressed out because, like, her aunt and uncle's ranch is, like, having all this sabotage. There's a ghost horse. And she goes-
Meghan: And they're going to send them back.
Colleen: And they're going to send them back. They're, like, not allowed to stay on this vacation anymore.
Meghan: They've been here for, like, one day and they're like, “Actually, go back.”
Colleen: And Nancy hasn't been [at the ranch] at all. And so Bess and George are making flight plans home. And Bess is like, “This mystery has me so upset that my appetite is gone. I'll have a double chocolate sundae with walnuts.” And I love her. And I hate how much Nancy and George, like, rag on her. I don't think it really bothers Bess. But it is so obvious reading it from, like, a modern point of view that there's kind of, like, a lot of fat-shaming.
Meghan: There is. There is.
Colleen: And I remember that being kind of the case in every book with Bess, and George gives her the worst time. But I just think it's very cute that she's like, “Listen, I am stressed out. There's so much happening. I will have a chocolate sundae. That does need to happen.” Because, like, same, girl.
Meghan: Yeah, agreed. My favorite. So for Cooking Corner, there's a lot of desserts.
Colleen: Yeah!
Meghan: In this one, lots of pies and-
Colleen: Like a lemon meringue situation.
Meghan: Like a lemon meringue. There's always desserts. But one of my favorites is when they go into the little town, they get tacos.
Colleen: I wrote this down too!
Meghan: But the tacos is italicized, because you've never heard of this “taco” thing.
Colleen: This foreign word, “tacos.”
Meghan: Yeah. It's, it's, it's this new thing.
Colleen: I think it's very interesting too, because they- Are they in Texas?
Meghan: No, they're in Arizona.
Colleen: So they're describing it as a Spanish restaurant. I would argue that that's almost certainly a Mexican restaurant due to it being on the Mexican border, but yes, they're having some tacos.
Meghan: Tacos!
Colleen: And then the sheriff constantly is using the word “hombre” to mean just, like, the bad guys or whatever. Like.
Meghan: We're going to get those “bad hombres.”
Colleen: But that's not italicized. We all know that word. “Tacos,” however, you might be unfamiliar with.
Meghan: Yeah. I wish they had described it to me, because I would be very interested to know what tacos might be.
Colleen: I have no idea.
Meghan: But that was my personal favorite for the Cooking Corner because-
Colleen: That's fair. I like that Nancy did some of the cooking this time and she got all the assistants. She made a giant chocolate cake for this, like, rodeo.
Meghan: A rodeo with a dance afterwards. But it was a contest. It was, like, a dancing contest.
Colleen: And they seemed to not know about that, so they signed up.
Meghan: You'll be surprised to know who won the contest. [whispering] It's Nancy.
Colleen: [whispering] Oh my god. [resumes normal speaking voice] There's some corn fritters. That sounds good. The tacos sound so exciting and intriguing.
Meghan: Graham crackers. Wait.
Colleen: Oh, yeah.
Meghan: They spend the whole evening making cake, and they're like, “Oh my god, this looks amazing. Let's just have a little bit.” Nancy's like, “Absolutely not. If you want dessert, here's some graham crackers and milk.”
Colleen: I think that's so funny.
Meghan: Those are so, such different levels of dessert.
Colleen: One hundred percent!
Meghan: But like-
Colleen: “You don't deserve this. It's for the event. You'll have some there.” I thought that was very great.
Meghan: When they go to this event that Nancy made the cake for, they have barbecue. And-
Colleen: Oh yeah!
Meghan: They go pretty…not in-depth, but they do describe how it's been all wrapped up in the fire pit for all night.
Colleen: Like, underground, right?
Meghan: Yeah. I know that Hawaiian barbecue is very similar, where the fire pit is, like, dug in. And you put the meat in for a long time.
Colleen: It sounds so time-intensive, but so good.
Meghan: Yeah. I was like, I bet that's, like, legit good barbecue.
Colleen: Heck yeah. Heck yeah.
Meghan: They did say it was delicious. Oh gosh.
Colleen: I believe them.
Meghan: I want some barbecue and potato salad.
[Sound Cue: European-style emergency vehicle siren sound plays underneath the spoken words “Fashion Police”]
Meghan: So this week in Fashion Police, we had quite a lot of outfit changes.
Colleen: Lot of outfit changes.
Meghan: They were constantly-
Colleen: Well, ‘cause they kept getting covered in mud and stuff.
Meghan: Yeah. So they kept going to all take a shower and all change their clothes. I was mostly focused on our main character of Nancy.
Colleen: Of course.
Meghan: My favorite outfit of hers was at the beginning, which- Apparently all eyes turned on her. Was it her and Bess?
Colleen: Of course. Yes.
Meghan: Because they're, like, walking through the airport, and it describes Nancy wearing an olive green knit with matching shoes and beige accessories and a matching knitting bag.
Colleen: I think that's cute.
Meghan: Everyone in the airport just watching Nancy strut down.
Colleen: Including the bad guys who were leaving her notes and stuff.
Meghan: But. Maybe that's who was really paying [attention]. She's like, “Wow. Everyone's watching me. That one guy over there who's very suspiciously watching.”
Colleen: “It feels like twenty pairs of eyes, but it's just this one guy.”
Meghan: “It's just this one guy.”
Colleen: I do like that a lot. I also was like, “This must be one of those back-in-timey things of, like, it's a knitting bag. But really, no, she was knitting.
Meghan: Yes, I also-
Colleen: She was knitting for both her dad and Ned at the same time, which is so exciting for her. Almost immediately after they leave the airport, they get caught in this big old sandstorm, and they didn't roll up the windows in time to miss all of it. So afterward they, like, get a little bit of water and they, like, wash off their face and hands, and then they comb their hair and put on fresh lipstick, which is hilarious. And then Bess is like, “Actually, I don't even know why we bother. There's no one out here to see us but prairie dogs and lizards.” And I thought that was so stinking cute. They did still do it. They did still get dressed up again.
Meghan: And to be fair, Dave did show up only a few minutes later.
Colleen: That's true.
Meghan: So, good for Nancy.
Colleen: Yes, thank goodness they were ready to go.
Meghan: Just because I love Dave.
Colleen: Dave's pretty good.
Meghan: And although he didn't have a great first impression, at least she looked hot.
Colleen: Yes, exactly. Was he mad at her still? Absolutely.
Meghan: Was he judging her?
Colleen: For sure.
Meghan: Yep.
Colleen: For sure. Even though it could not have been her fault that the water jugs did not get filled because she was not at the ranch to fill them.
Meghan: Yep.
Colleen: It is still her fault somehow. Bess wanted to look extra nice because when she was at the ranch earlier, after they got caught in this, like, rushing river that the horse wasn't ready to swim in, and then Nancy kinda had to rescue Bess from it, and then they, like, came back to the ranch all bedraggled and Bess is like, “Well for dinner, I want to look extra nice, to make up for the extra awful way I looked this afternoon.” Bess, nobody cares, it's okay.
Meghan: Yeah! ‘Cause she changes- She does her hair three times.
Colleen: Three times. What else did you notice?
Meghan: She's always got a good matching outfit, yellow blouse and skirt with a matching slipover.
Colleen: What's a slipover?
Meghan: Type of sweater.
Colleen: Oh.
Meghan: A powder blue sweater and skirt combo.
Colleen: What are togs? Riding togs. They change into riding togs.
Meghan: Oh they're pants. They're equestrian pants.
Colleen: [reading off the internet] “Togs are a set of clothing for a specified use. For example, riding togs.” Okay.
Meghan: You didn't help me.
Colleen: No, that is helpful because it's, like, togs are like, that's for something specific. So if it's hiking togs or riding togs-
Meghan: So I guess it's just specific clothes.
Colleen: I like that.
Meghan: It looks like [it]! So yeah. Riding togs.
Colleen: It's like, “My riding duds.”
Meghan: Yeah, it would be all of the gear that you would need for riding, which would be boots and specialized pants for the friction rub. Helmet.
Colleen: Yeah, you need a helmet in the game. I think if you don't wear it- I might be thinking of the Danger on Deception Island because I know this is true for that one. But if you don't wear your helmet, sometimes it's an automatic death.
Meghan: Oh no!
Colleen: Like, you ride your bike around a lot in Danger on Deception Island. Whenever you're not kayaking, you're riding a bike. And anytime you click on the bike without clicking on the helmet first, it shows up with a newspaper article like, “Teen Brained!”
Meghan: You died!
Colleen: Or whatever.
Meghan: Oh my god!
Colleen: “Local Teen Totally, Like Bit It (Because They Didn't Wear Their Helmet).” Like, that's so sad. My other fashion note is, the cook is getting ready to quit because she's so scared of this ghost horse, which, like, so valid. And Nancy, like, finally convinces her, like, “If I can prove it's a real horse, will you stay?” She's like, “Absolutely. I'm not afraid of a living creature. It's just that it's clearly a ghost.” That was not clear at first. What it said was, like, the group hurries into the kitchen, the cook is there, she's ladling out stew and she's wearing her big white apron and a black straw hat bedecked with artificial roses and everyone's standing around looking uncomfortable. And I was like, “Is that all she's wearing? Is her apron and this big cowboy hat? Or is it like, she's got an outfit but the cowboy hat is so weird that everyone's like, ‘I don't know how I feel about this.’” Like everyone's looking with their faces strained. Like-
Meghan: That's so funny.
Colleen: I was like, “How bad is this hat?”
Meghan: It's her traveling hat.
Colleen: I guess.
Meghan: So that's why.
Colleen: It's her “I'm quitting” hat.
Meghan: Yeah, I think she's like, “Okay, I've got all my gear on, I'm leaving, but first! Lemon meringue pie. And then I'm out of here.”
Colleen: Exactly. This is the last lemon meringue pie in the world.
Meghan: “I'm literally ready to go. I've got my backpack on and I have a hat.”
Colleen: I feel like they can serve themselves at this point.
Meghan: “Finish the pie!”
Colleen: Incredible.
[Sound Cue: High-pitched sounds imitating a camera flashbulb play underneath the spoken words “Picture Perfect”]
Meghan: So for Picture Perfect, I chose the first one. What I did like is that it doesn't actually give a spoiler.
Colleen: That's true. This is not like, “We found the guy who's been kidnapped in the basement.”
Meghan: Or “We found the treasure!”
Colleen: You're right. That's pretty vague.
Meghan: Yeah. So I went in not remembering anything about this book. And so I was like, “Oh, this must take place in the West. ‘Cause look at the Adobe houses.”
Colleen: Yup, it's, like, Nancy on a ladder, and Bess is crying fearfully, “Nancy, be careful!”
Meghan: Yep. So far, I think this is the best before-the-book-starts little picture preview.
Colleen: I agree. I do like that. But it does also look like Bess is just afraid of ladders. Nancy is, like, two steps up on this ladder and Bess goes, “Nancy, be careful!” Now I know it's because-
Meghan: Also, I just really like her glare. Like, “How dare you?”
Colleen: “I can do a ladder. It's not even that hard! Just because you're a little scaredy-cat.”
Meghan: Yeah. Poor Bess.
Colleen: Poor Bess. She's got a lot going on.
Meghan: So what was your picture?
Colleen: My big one was, I was looking at my cover and I was like, “Why is the phantom horse, like, off-screen?” You can see parts of two legs and its nose. And I was like, "The most exciting, like, visual from this book is the phantom horse.” And yes, on my cover, I have Nancy riding her horse and then like a little tiny glimpse of this horse. And on your cover, you have the full ghost horse and Nancy's horse.
Meghan: I know.
Colleen: Which I think makes more sense.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: I don't know why this was cropped in this way. I have the two-in-one that my mom would get in the mail as a kid, and it just has two Nancy Drew books in one text. And so they'll just pick one to put on the cover and apparently crop it however they see fit, and not necessarily what makes sense. I think we could scoot her back. You would still see all of Nancy and you would see some more of the horse.
Meghan: 100%. Yeah. The ghost horse is the best part of the cover.
Colleen: Argua- Like, not even “arguably.”
Meghan: This is what made me want to read this book.
Colleen: Exactly.
Meghan: This specific cover. It's a good cover.
Colleen: It's a great cover. My other favorite picture is at the dance. It's split across two pages again. So Nancy's kind of on her own page with a lot of adoring fans, and then the rest of the, like, seven members of this four-couple thing are all having a good time over here. And Nancy's, like-
Meghan: A bunch of adoring fans other than the very front person frowning.
Colleen: Glaring.
Meghan: Frowning with his arms crossed.
Colleen: Is that Shorty?
Meghan: No I think that's, uh-
Colleen: Because Shorty's mad that she didn't get kidnapped because she was supposed to get kidnapped and Shorty has been- Shorty was sus the whole book and Nancy was like, “Wow.”
Meghan: His last name is Stole! His last name is Stole.
Colleen: [laughing] Oh my gosh.
Meghan: He has been suspicious the whole time.
Colleen: I literally didn't even catch that.
Meghan: I did. I was like, “There's no way he's the guy.”
Colleen: I was like, “Yeah, surely they're setting this up too much.”
Meghan: Yeah. “This is going to be a red herring.”
Colleen: He's suspicious about this. He's, like, denying too much that he didn't refill the water jugs, and they almost ran out of water in the desert, and blah blah blah, and everything he does is suspicious. And then it was him. Wow. Just incredible. Now in the game, he's creepy because he's just like this, in the way they animate him, he kind of jumpscares you. It's not meant to. It's just the way it is. And so everyone's like, “I hated him. And also he kept, you know, killing me over my unripe vegetables, but I didn't actually think it was him. I just thought he was creepily animated, but actually it’s him. It was him.” Stupid Shorty.
Meghan: Yeah, I don't know if that's Shorty or if it's the man in black with the big old hat.
Colleen: Hard to say. But he hates Nancy. He's right in front glaring at her.
Meghan: Oh yeah, no, it is Shorty. It is. “Whirling past the edge of the platform, Nancy glimpsed Shorty, glowering at her.”
Colleen: And everyone else was like, “Wow, I love this dance.”
Meghan: “Wow, Nancy's so beautiful in her dancing dress.”
Colleen: Yeah. Speaking of that dancing dress, do you want to go to Blast from the Past?
Meghan: Yeah, let's jump to Blast from the Past.
[Sound Cue: Synthesized harp plays descending notes under the spoken words “Blast from the Past”]
Meghan: Okay, so let's start with, probably, the most controversial part in this book.
Colleen: Mm-hmm. And that is Nancy, Bess, and George doing a little cultural appropriation just for funsies. So in this book, there's a character named Mary Deer. And I don't remember if that's her last name in the game, but she's there. She's this native artist, like, indigenous artist and she's pretty cool.
Meghan: She's not an artist.
Colleen: Oh, sorry. No she's an art- I think in the game she's an artist.
Meghan: She's got like a-
Colleen: Souvenir-shop-type thing?
Meghan: Yes, she's got a souvenir shop.
Colleen: That's my bad. I think she makes some art in the game, which is kinda cool, because it gives her a little more ownership. And I was like, “Okay, you know, I don't love that they're calling her ‘Indian’ and saying all these things are like ‘Indian,’ left, and center when they mean ‘indigenous’ or ‘native.’”
Meghan: Yeah. “Indian dwelling.” “Indian grindstone.”
Colleen: Yeah, the grindstone. Was that part of the fireplace? I was confused about that. But there was a lot of “Indian” stuff. And I was like, “But I'll give them that, you know, it's the 60s. But then they do buy these “squaw outfits” and wear them to the rodeo and that one, I don't think I can give as much leeway to. Did not really like it.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: And apparently, everybody at the rodeo is wearing either cowboy stuff or culturally appropriate indigenous stuff, when it's all white people according to the picture.
Meghan: Yup.
Colleen: That's not my favorite. They at least paid for it, you know. It could have been worse.
Meghan: But it definitely was the most uncomfortable.
Colleen: Like specifically, Bess goes, “I know, let's all buy Indian costumes.” I'm like, “Ohhhhh. Oh you're the person that this ‘My Culture is Not Your Costume’ Halloween ad is for, Bess.”
Meghan: Yup.
Colleen: Oh. You hate to see it.
Meghan: I think that's been probably the most uncomfortable thing we've encountered so far.
Colleen: I think so. Like, so far the closest was, like, “The Chinese” or whatever which wasn't great phrasing, but way better than this.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: Yeah, that was uncomfortable. And it kept coming back up.
Meghan: It did.
Colleen: Because they were, like, so excited to wear it to the rodeo and they were, like, getting their hair just so. And I'm like, “All right, we can calm down about this quote unquote ‘squaw outfit.’ I don't like this at all.”
Meghan: Obviously, our language has changed.
Colleen: It's outdated.
Meghan: Even just from going from “Indian” to “Native American,” I think the preferred term oftentimes now is just “indigenous.”
Colleen: And “nations” rather than “tribes.”
Meghan: Yes. Yes. A lot of things have changed just within our lifetime.
Colleen: Oh, 100%.
Meghan: Switching gears a little bit, I wanted to talk about the product placement in this book.
Colleen: What? I didn't notice this.
Meghan: Thermos. The Thermos brand.
Colleen: Oh snap. There was Thermos left, right and center.
Meghan: Yes, there was so much there.
Colleen: Oh my god!
Meghan: And for some reason it actually kept-
Colleen: Like, jarred you out of it?
Meghan: -bringing me out. I'm, like-
Colleen: Was that new when they wrote this?
Meghan: No, because I looked it up.
Colleen: Oh my god. Of course you did. Great.
Meghan: The Thermos brand has been around since 1904.
Colleen: So that's not even, like, new to the writers.
Meghan: No.
Colleen: Oh my god. Also that's way older than I thought.
Meghan: And I brought some interesting kind of facts. From then until the 20s, they were super into the idea of the, like, generalization of the term “Thermos” to mean any sealing [storage object]. Like the way we say “This is a Kleenex.”
Colleen: Yeah.
Meghan: Even if it's not a Kleenex brand.
Colleen: Yeah.
Meghan: Then they realized. Because they actually pushed for it. They're like, “Yep, yep.” And then they were like, “Wait, no, no, no, no, we own ‘Thermos.’”
Colleen: Right! Not as good for the brand.
Meghan: And so in the 1960s, I think it said 1962, there was a lawsuit over whether another brand could use the word “Thermos” in their marketing.
Colleen: Interesting. Because once it becomes a household word, don't they lose their copyright?
Meghan: Yes. And so that's what the judge ruled is that they're trademarked with the capital T, “Thermos,” but other brands can use a lowercase T.
Colleen: Oh snap.
Meghan: So I just thought it was interesting because I was-
Colleen: Was it capital or lowercase?
Meghan: It's all capitalized in this book. They have, like, Thermos-brand jugs throughout the entire- And they didn't just say, “Oh, I'm going to fill my Thermos,” which is what I think I would say now. Or, like, honestly, I wouldn't. I would just say “my water bottle.”
Colleen: Right.
Meghan: And a Thermos, I associate with, like, having soup, or like a hot beverage that is sealed. But they keep calling it “a Thermos jug.”
Colleen: Interesting.
Meghan: Like, “I asked Shorty to fill up the Thermos jugs.” It's just-
Colleen: I didn't even notice, like, until you mentioned it. Oh my god.
Meghan: So that was my big Blast from the Past that I got to do, like, some research on.
Colleen: Oh my god. 1904! That's way earlier than I would have thought
Meghan: I know! in Germany.
Colleen: Germany.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: I just love the old-timey phrasing. George slaps her forehead. It's, like, a “duh” moment, but instead of “duh” she goes, “Good night! What brains we are!”
Meghan: “Good night! What brains we are!”
Colleen: It's, like, eight in the morning. “Good night.”
Meghan: “What brains we are” feels very Shakespearean.
Colleen: It is. It's ‘cause they forgot to tell Nancy about the existence of their cousin and how she has a mystery. I did like that, like, Nancy was asked to do this side quest mystery as opposed to just kind of deciding on her own that she's gonna butt into somebody's business, and that was a nice change.
Meghan: Yes. Yeah, she got requested to join both.
Colleen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Meghan: Some other Blasts from the Past. I know we kind of referenced this. There's a fair amount of body-shaming of Bess.
Colleen: There is! And I remember that being in multiple books.
Meghan: Yes. Completely normalized, especially from George,
Colleen: Especially from George. I think my least favorite version of that was, she’s, you know, trying to cool down by getting some cold drink and a hot dog to go with it. And George goes, “Eating is really a very fattening hobby, dear cousin.” Girl, it's not a hobby. It's literally required. But okay, thank you.
Meghan: Yeah, that's the one I wrote down.
Colleen: Like specifically?
Meghan: Yeah. The other ones were a little bit more implied or like a giggle in response to something Bess would say.
Colleen: Yeah, we'll keep an eye on that, because I'm sure it will come back in future books. Also, I love, similar to, I think it was The Hidden Staircase, when they're, like, talking about all the old-timey stuff, the colonial stuff. They, there was, like, a stone vat and what it was, was foreshadowing, because it wasn't just a vat. It was also, like, a secret entrance to a tunnel, and that's how people kept coming and going and disappearing. And shadowy figures are on the ranch and doing sabotage. But specifically, they're talking about this, like, stone vat that is where the “old-timers” stored milk products and eggs.
Meghan: The old-timers.
Colleen: The old-timers. That could be literally anything, thank you. That was helpful.
Meghan: I just thought it was interesting. I know we mentioned, like, how things have changed within our lifetime with regards to “Indian” versus “Native American” versus “indigenous,” but there were two other things that I was like, “Wow, I remember those when I was a kid and now they're completely gone,” which is phone booths at the airport.
Colleen: Oh my god. Oh my god!
Meghan: And roll-up windows.
Colleen: I had a roll-up window in my car until like four years ago. [Note from Transcription-Colleen: This is incorrect, Colleen realized they apparently don’t understand time, and their manual-transmission car with roll-up windows had to be sent to “live on a farm” in 2016, which was not four years ago, even at time of recording.]
Meghan: I haven't seen a roll-up window in a very long time.
Colleen: Me neither.
Meghan: And I- Last time I saw a phone booth was in England, and that was because it's a touristy, like, “Take a picture in the London phone booth.”
Colleen: I saw one at the local outdoor mall, but it's not an actual usable one. It's one you pose with and it's, like, a Pokémon Go stop.
Meghan: Oh my goodness. It's just interesting.
Colleen: Yeah.
Meghan: I mean, thinking about how these books were updated from the 1930s to the 1960s, and I feel like, when we look at the past, we don't see how big a time jump that is.
Colleen: Right.
Meghan: But when we think about it from the 90s to today-
Colleen: You sound like a radio station.
Meghan: “The 80s, 90s, and today.”
Colleen: “All three decades of today”
Meghan: There are some things that I feel like it's just really interesting how those things have changed so quickly that we're able to see them.
Colleen: I like that.
[Sound Cue: The spoken words “Wound Watch” are followed by a low voice exclaiming as if punched in the stomach]
Colleen: We got another knockout!
Meghan: Woohoo!
Colleen: Our total knockouts is up to three.
Meghan: Wait, are we “woohoo” or is this a “nooo”?
Colleen: It's up to you, really. I usually think of her getting either knocked out or kidnapped about once per book and currently we're up to three total knockouts and three total kidnappings, plus one attempted in this book, but I'm not gonna count it.
Meghan: Yes, yes.
Colleen: Bess and George thwart it, which is nice.
Meghan: Yes, yes, I would not count that as a full kidnap either.
Colleen: No, but yeah, she fully got knocked out when she got thrown from a horse.
Meghan: Yeah, I said she got knocked out in a horse crash.
Colleen: A horse crash. A technical term. You're right, but-
Meghan: I mean, I'm very worried about the horse. To be honest, like-
Colleen: Yeah! Yeah!
Meghan: Horses are very fragile. They don't look it.
Colleen: There's, like, memes about, like, “The first sign of ‘you have a sick horse or sheep’ is you have a dead horse or sheep.”
Meghan: Yeah, like, and especially if they hurt their legs, they're like-
Colleen: They're, like, helpless.
Meghan: Yeah, I think, like, vets tend to put them down. So she crashed her horse into another horse!
Colleen: Not good for either horse.
Meghan: No.
Colleen: The dog also got hurt.
Meghan: I know.
Colleen: ‘Cause he was chasing after the ghost horse and he got some of the, like, phosphorescent paint from the horse on him. So the, like, bad guys were like, “Oh my god, if the dog goes back, they're going to notice the phosphorescent paint and the whole thing's going to be given up.” So they kidnap the dog. He's got, like, a swelling broken skin on his head. He's- I mean, they find him. They rescue him. They've washed him. They washed the paint off, but they didn't get it off the teeth where he was trying to snap at the horse. And that- Thank you. So that's how they figure it out. But they freak out the cook in the process too. They're like, “Okay, I'm going to prove to you that it's a real horse,” but they don't say anything. And then they just let the dog come in with, like, glowing teeth. And she was like, “Hi, what?!”
Meghan: Just some floating teeth coming forward.
Colleen: “I hate this!” Just, like, floating glowing teeth. And Nancy's like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is the phosphorescent paint that like-” She explains it in post, but I feel that to stop scaring the cook, we could have explained-
Meghan: That you're really trying to convince not to abandon the family!
Colleen: Yeah! She's like, “Give me one more day so that we can try to prove this to you.” And she's like, “Fine.” No, yeah.
Meghan: And then the other wound I have for our dear darling Nancy is, she gets bruised in a landslide. Landslide number one of two.
Colleen: There's a lot of landslides and rocks. Rock falls and not- Not avalanches, and it wasn't like- The river thing was just ‘cause it was raining, but, like, they knew that the horse wasn't a swimmer and they were trying to get back before the rain and they missed. Yeah.
Meghan: They're, like, “Okay, Bess, just so you know, this isn't a swimming horse.” I was like, “Oh boy, I bet we're going to have to go swimming.”
Colleen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, a lot of nature-related disasters in this one.
Meghan: Yes, but overall, besides getting dirty quite a lot-
Colleen: Yes, and having to change their hairdo several times.
Meghan: And their lipstick.
Colleen: Refresh their lipstick.
Meghan: Yeah, I only counted Nancy getting bruised and getting knocked out from the horse crash.
Colleen: Yeah, Nancy did okay in this book. All things considered.
Meghan: All things considered.
[Sound Cue: The spoken words “Drew’s Clues” are followed by the sound of the dog from Blue’s Clues barking four times in a recognizable pattern]
Meghan: So on Drew's Clues, we got some more info about the type of person that Nancy is. And I had no idea she was so good at knitting.
Colleen: Me neither! That also took me by surprise. I would have thought she would have no time. Because a lot of her stuff isn't traditionally feminine, right?
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: And knitting is a very traditionally feminine thing, even though obviously that has no reason to be gendered.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: That was cool. I feel like if you can knit a little bit, I feel like you can make a skirt. Because that's a rectangle. She's like, “No, no, I've got a sweater.”
Meghan: Or a blanket.
Colleen: Right! “This is to my dad's dimensions, or possibly Ned's dimensions, but, like, I've got it all planned out. It's a sweater.”
Meghan: I was- I was very surprised. And it's, like, the knitting bag and- Maybe it's all the times where she's, like, waiting when she's just, like-
Colleen: “I gotta wait for this train or this telegram or this,” “I'm on a stakeout. I gotta-”
Meghan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you'd want to come up with some sort of hobby to pass the time.
Colleen: I guess.
Meghan: Do you have any Drew's Clues?
Colleen: Not about Nancy, but I was just so excited about Bess and George. I put that in the category of finding out more about her family and her best friends. Like, Bess and George is [are] who I iconically think of, and they're usually, like- Helen's not in any of the games. Deirdre's in some of the games and some of the books. We haven't seen her yet. But, like, Bess and George is [are], like, that's the sidekicks. You have the Hardy Boys. They're always a set of two. And Nancy's usually a set of three.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: And so I'm so happy to see them. And I'm glad that, even if we haven't seen them before, it's like, “No, no, no, they are best friends. Bess is blonde and plump and loves to play matchmaker and loves to flirt and she's just a fun time. And George is a dark-haired, short-haired, strong, competent-”
Meghan: “Tomboy.”
Colleen: “Tomboy.”
Meghan: “Tomboy.”
Colleen: “A straight one!”
Meghan: She goes on a date with a boy.
Colleen: A boy!
Meghan: Yep.
Colleen: Write that down.
Meghan: They had a great time, probably.
Colleen: Had a great time! Probably!
Meghan: We didn't talk about them at all.
Colleen: Nope. Nope.
Meghan: I also, and we kind of referenced this in the Cooking Corner, Nancy can bake a cake.
Colleen: From scratch, I assume.
Meghan: From scratch!
Colleen: And it was, like, a huge situation, and they needed, like, five helpers.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: But she got Bess, George, and the three cowboys involved.
Meghan: No recipes mentioned, and, like, how would you? She's just like, “I can make a chocolate cake,” and they're like, “Yep, that's it.”
Colleen: In fact, they nominate her. They're like, “Nancy makes scrumptious [desserts].” I believe [that] is the word that is used, which I love because my niece really loved hearing my husband try to say- Well, he succeeded in saying “scrumptious” because he's really good at that kind of thing. Just saying words. She, being three, was like, “scupperts.”
Meghan: “Scupperts!”
Colleen: “These cookies are ‘scumpus.’” We have a video of her doing, like, ten different tries, and none of them are right. There's different consonants in each version. It's great. So-
Meghan: Amazing.
Colleen: So Nancy makes a ‘scuppers’ cake. It's very good. Yeah. Lot of good skills that aren't necessarily related to sleuthing. They're just hobbies.
Meghan: Just fun! A prolific horseback rider as well.
Colleen: Oh yeah, along with her award-winning scuba-ing from last book.
Meghan: Right, exactly.
Colleen: Does she have any horseback awards?
Meghan: That's the question, isn't it?
Colleen: I'll have to search the River Heights newspaper.
[Sound Cue: Simple piano tune underneath the spoken words “Sleuthing Skills”]
Meghan: So what are some sleuthing skills that our listeners need to accumulate in order to become their own girl detective?
Colleen: Right. Regardless of gender, you will be a girl detective after you have these skills.
Meghan: Yes. Yup.
Colleen: You do need to have them before you even start. You need to memorize the contents of any bag that you carry with you so that after it's been rifled through, you can tell that the arrangement is different but the original contents are completely intact. That is vital. If you change what you carry in your bag from day to day, you have to do a little memorization activity in the morning.
Meghan: Exactly. We've kind of talked about the car maintenance before with changing tires, but you also need to be able to diagnose and repair your own radiator.
Colleen: Oh yes. Yes, that's important. You also need to be able to be aware of suspicious characters in your vicinity, whether that is stopping the conversation because someone appears to be listening too intently, or thinking that someone nearby is “doth-protesting” too much. I believe it is, Nancy overheard Shorty and thought he was overdoing it. And he was. And we were right that he was suspicious, but, like, you just need to know that.
Meghan: You also need to be a dog whisperer.
Colleen: Yes.
Meghan: So if an angry animal approaches you-
Colleen: A handsome black German shepherd, but angry.
Meghan: Yes, angry and snapping and snarling, you must be able to stand your ground while saying nothing.
Colleen: Yes, that's the whispering part.
Meghan: That's the whispering part.
Colleen: Saying nothing.
Meghan: Saying nothing, and internally able to calm down this dog.
Colleen: Which will impress the ranch hand and help persuade him to let you stay and solve the mystery.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: Yes, yes, yes. You have to be able to rescue your friend whose horse won't swim and she might drown.
Meghan: Yep. So you gotta be really strong.
Colleen: You gotta be really strong because you're leading a horse and a girl. And right before that, you also have to help a dog cross the river on your horse. There's a lot of river-crossing skills that are needed for mystery solving. Plus just riding in general.
Meghan: Animal husbandry.
Colleen: Animal husbandry in general. I always thought that meant animal mating, so I've learned something new today.
Meghan: You need to be able to horseback-ride.
Colleen: Yeah. And take care of the tack and the bridle, and check that it hasn't been messed with.
Meghan: Yep. Be able to diagnose any problems with that as well.
Colleen: Yes, indeed. Of course, you need to be able to bake a chocolate cake efficiently and know a lot of art skills such as what a pastel is and why a pastel drawing would be different from a painting. That's really important. That comes up.
Meghan: Very Elle Woods.
Colleen: Yes. She remembered it from last May's Vogue. You also have to know a lot about chemistry. You have to memorize everything you've ever learned in chemistry class, because that's- She knows about the phosphorescent paint. And, like, every time before they saw the horse, they would see a suspicious light and they would hear a whistle. And the whistle was, like, maybe a signal to the other crew member? I don't know that that was explained. It reminded me of Whistler of the Dark.
Meghan: No, it was explained. That was Shorty's signal to them to-
Colleen: Because he knows all the animal sounds?
Meghan: Because he trained the horse.
Colleen: That's what it was. It’s a signal from Shorty to the horse. But right before that, they would see a light and that's what was activating the phosphorescent paint.
Meghan: They're charging it.
Colleen: Yes, exactly. They're charging it. Exactly. Speaking of that, you also have to know a lot about theatrical effects. You can't be an actor because you can't trust those, but you have to know about theatrical effects because they use Japan silk.
Meghan: Japan silk, not Japanese.
Colleen: Nope, just Japan silk. It's a very thin material and that's what they covered in phosphorus so they didn't have to paint the horse, which is good. Because if you know about The Wizard of Oz, the horse of many colors was coated in just JELL-O powder, and between takes, it just kept eating all the JELL-O powder because that's delicious. So let's not do that with phosphorus.
Meghan: My personal favorite sleuthing skill you need: Lying.
Colleen: Yeah, that comes back over and over.
Meghan: I think I've already mentioned it before, but you really need to work on your lying skills.
Colleen: Oh yes. And lighting a signal fire and then playing for time when you're told to let it out so that there's time for your ranch hand partner Dave to be like, “Oh my god, the signal fire! Oh, it went out. Something must have gone wrong.” Dave does a really good job of backup in this. That's all the skills I have, but that's a lot.
Meghan: There's a lot of sleuthing skills this time. So better get practicing.
[Sound Cue: Four distinct drum beats that mimic the opening of the song “Accidentally in Love” by Counting Crows, followed by the sung words “Accidentally Gay”]
Colleen: So for this section, we talk about things that may not have been intended to be gay in the original writing, but I'm definitely interpreting as gay. The first one is George as a whole. I feel like a lot of, like, actual tomboys or whatever, or just feminists or whatever growing up would be like, “Well, what do you- Why do you- Why do you need ‘two strong boys’ to carry all the chairs out of choir class? I can do it too!” But George is like, “Nope, I've got all the luggage.” She needs to go buy a cowboy kerchief and some other cowboy apparel. That's important. She just does a lot of tomboyish behavior. But also, I think Mary might have a crush on Nancy because she gives her the watch from Dirk Valentine. And, like, people have been trying to buy it off her and she won't sell it, but she gives it to Nancy. She won't take no for an answer and she shyly pins it to Nancy's blouse. So that's kind of cute.
Meghan: Yeah, I feel like there wasn't as much.
Colleen: Not as much. I'll keep an eye out.
Meghan: Yeah, in this book. It's because Helen's not there.
Colleen: Because Helen's not there! But hopefully more can develop with George and/or Helen.
Meghan: Will Helen be back?
Colleen: I hope so. I don't remember.
Meghan: Is she gone now?
Colleen: I don't know.
Meghan: Oh! I love Helen.
Colleen: I love Helen a lot. She's so sweet.
Meghan: She is.
[Sound Cue: Scribbling as of a pencil on paper underneath the spoken words “Miscellaneous Mysteries”]
Colleen: So for Miscellaneous Mysteries, just the stuff we didn't have time for, my first thing is: Bess, why are you like this? Specifically, she's talking about the phantom horse. She's like, “It's the weirdest thing. All glowing white and filmy. We saw it running across what we call ‘The Big Meadow.’” Do you call it that because it's a big meadow? What a dumb thing to say. I love this. Bess! I'm not here for George's shaming of Bess. I will shame Bess over this. That means nothing. That's not- What the heck?
Meghan: Mine was on page twenty. This is, like, our introduction to Dave, when they tell about how they lost- They don't have two things of water. They only have one. And he says, “Just what I figured, three little dudes stuck high and dry.” I feel like culturally, “dude” has been associated with males.
Colleen: Mm-hmm. Like surfer dudes.
Meghan: Yeah, and like, “Hey, dude.” Like, I think it has become more gender-neutral in the last…probably decade, but I was surprised to see it used in this context.
Colleen: For Nancy, Bess, and George, where there's not even, like, [in] Spanish where, like, one male can change the whole plural noun to male. Um, so you've heard of a dude ranch.
Meghan: Yes, I have.
Colleen: I thought that that meant that “dude” referred to, like, cowboys and, like, ranch hands and whatever, and that those tended to be male, and that's where that came from. No, “dude” is kind of like a “Yankee Doodle Dandy.” Someone who's usually male and dresses way too fancy. So a dude ranch is a ranch where it's like city slickers. It, like, caters to tourists. They are in the West, but they don't belong in the West. That's exactly what they are.
Meghan: Ohhhhh.
Colleen: They're three little dudes. They're high and dry. They don't know how to deal with the West. They were told how to. They didn't prepare.
Meghan: Ohhhhhh.
Colleen: Right?
Meghan: Wow.
Colleen: Because you asked me. I was like, “I'm sure I know what this is.” And then I looked it up and, like, I was very wrong.
Meghan: How interesting.
Colleen: Right?
Meghan: That's kind of cool.
Colleen: I have just another quote from Bess. It's not really a mystery. It's just very cute. So, like, Bess is, like, planning to set up Alice and Jack, and it's very cute. And George is like, “What have you got up your sleeve?” Bess goes, “Just my arm!”
Meghan: I know! It's so cute! I love Bess.
Colleen: My other mystery is: “Why is the next one also about, like, a farm?” Like, I know a farm and a ranch are not the same, but like those feel similar enough that I wouldn't have put them next to each other.
Meghan: Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
Colleen: I'm just curious about that. Don't remember a lot about Red Gate Farm because anything I thought I knew about that was from this, so, whoops! It's probably fine. Maybe there's horses. Maybe there's a ghost horse. I won't know from the cover. Maybe that's why they cropped it, like, “Well, there's a horse in both of them, so!”
Meghan: Yeah, yeah.
Colleen: Now on the last one, there was a glowing Nancy clone.
Meghan: In both of them?
Colleen: So yeah, I think that was only in one of them.
Meghan: Oh! I did have- Yeah, this is very small. I- And I've told Colleen this before. I always loved the name “Elizabeth” and I wished that was my first name. It's my middle name. But I always liked Elizabeth because of all the nicknames for Elizabeth.
Colleen: There's so many.
Meghan: You know, you can go with the Eliza, the Liz, the Beth, the-
Colleen: Lizzy.
Meghan: Lizzy, yeah.
Colleen: Eliza.
Meghan: Bessie.
Colleen: Bessie, I've heard Bessie.
Meghan: Yeah. But I had not heard Bet.
Colleen: And that's the aunt who runs the ranch.
Meghan: Yeah. Aunt Bet.
Colleen: And then later it, like, clarified, “That's Elizabeth.” I'm like, “Oh, that makes sense.” And I hadn't heard that. I like it though.
Meghan: So yeah, I had never heard that nickname. And I was like, “Boy! Another addition to the nickname list.”
Colleen: Yeah! Excellent.
Meghan: But yeah, I think that's all of our miscellaneous mysteries today.
Colleen: I think so.
Meghan: Just kidding! I have another miscellaneous mystery. This is something that I will need to continue researching throughout the books, but-
Colleen: I'm worried there won't be evidence.
Meghan: I know. I know. I'm also worried about this.
Colleen: I think this is a throwaway character.
Meghan: So, Bess and George are cousins.
Colleen: Yes.
Meghan: Alice is also their shared cousin.
Colleen: Correct.
Meghan: Also, this uncle and aunt that they're staying with are all of their uncle and aunt.
Colleen: Right. It's not Alice's dad or anybody.
Meghan: So it's all from the same branch. And I need to know how all of them are related.
Colleen: Because then there's also Bess and George's other uncle who is Alice's dad. He's this artist that's kidnapped and that's, he's not really that important, which is why he hasn't really come up.
Meghan: Yeah. There's also that. They find him.
Colleen: Yay!
Meghan: He was kidnapped by the same people. I guess maybe that is also a miscellaneous mystery. Why?
Colleen: Yeah. Did that need to-
Meghan: How was Chicago, this Chicago bank robbery where her dad got kidnapped-
Colleen: Right.
Meghan: -related to this mystery? Or what's told in the mystery, like, because they're kind of, like, “Why? How did you end up here? We're in Arizona.”
Colleen: They track him down because they see some of his art that the, he's making just to fill the time while he's busy being kidnapped. And they're like, “Well, I can sell this.” And then Alice was like, “That's my dad's art. I would swear by it.” And she's right.
Meghan: But, like, he got kidnapped in Chicago.
Colleen: Now he's in Arizona!
Meghan: And he's in Phoenix. They were hiding out there. Then they also heard the story of this, like, buried treasure. So they decide to stay and investigate it. But it's just so odd how everything is connected.
Colleen: It seems like a tenuous connection at best. That's why it's not in the game.
Meghan: Yes, it's also kind of unnecessary to the overall plot.
Colleen: I thought, when they first bought the painting, that it was going to turn out to be like a helpful map or something.
Meghan: No, no, no.
Colleen: Sorry, not the painting. It's a pastel. I sound just like the criminals.
Meghan: But I do want to figure out- They must all be related, but maybe not necessarily. Like all of their moms must be sisters, since they all have different last names.
Colleen: Oh, that's true.
Meghan: But-
Colleen: Even Bess and George have different last names. Bess Marvin and George Fayne.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: Okay.
Meghan: But I would like to look for more clues so I can build the family tree.
Colleen: Yeah, you would.
Meghan: I would.
Colleen: You haven't built a family tree in four whole books.
Meghan: I know!
Colleen: What will we do with your time?
Meghan: There have been no opportunities for family trees.
[Sound Cue: Upbeat synthesizer chords reminiscent of a game show introduction play underneath the spoken words “Gumshoe Game Show!”]
Meghan: Okay, I'm ready to earn my next prize! So far, I've got a-
Colleen: From the Drewseum of your collection-
Meghan: My Drewseum.
Colleen: You have an old clock.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: You have earned a tricorn hat.
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: You have earned an aquamarine ring
Meghan: Yes!
Colleen: And a diamond pin in the form of a lilac spray.
Meghan: Oh, amazing.
Colleen: And all of these, except for the tricorn hat, are also gifts that were given to Nancy. Nancy was actually given a silver urn in The Hidden Staircase.
Meghan: But it was not ever actually mentioned. It was mentioned in the next book.
Colleen: That's right.
Meghan: It was not mentioned, and it was also not even connected to anything that she saw.
Colleen: Right. Yeah, that was not helpful, so we voted on the tricorn hat for your prize for that. In this book, she was given the watch from Dirk Valentine. He's the, like, old-timey, like what do they call him?
Meghan: A bandit?
Colleen: Yeah, but there was like a, like a rapscallion, or what were they called? They got him some cool word for bandit. And she was offered some of the, like, gold that was melted into heart shapes, but she didn't take it. But that does seem like a cool prize. What would you like to win?
Meghan: I would like the watch.
Colleen: You would like the watch?
Meghan: I like the historical value and its connection to the mystery, and-
Colleen: Does it have, like, a heart carved in it because his name is Dirk Valentine?
Meghan: Yes.
Colleen: Okay. Welcome to the Gumshoe Game Show. In this book, the treasure is a bunch of gold hearts, so I wanted to ask you about a bunch of other famous heart-shaped items.
Meghan: Oh boy!
Colleen: Mm-hmm. So, one of the very first recorded instances of heart-shaped jewelry was in 1562, when a ring with a heart-shaped diamond was sent from whom to whom? A) From Mary, Queen of Scots, to her husband and half-cousin Henry Stuart. Romantic. I guess it's better than your full cousin.
Meghan: Yeah.
Colleen: Could have been worse. B) Mary, Queen of Scots, to Queen Elizabeth, in one of the first recorded instances of gal pals.
Meghan: No, they are not gal pals!
Colleen: They’re not? C) William Shakespeare, to Anne Hathaway, to make up for the whole Dark Mistress thing. Or D) Anne Hathaway to Hugh Dancy on the set of Ella Enchanted.
Meghan: Okay, the last one is not correct.
Colleen: You're right. But I thought it was funny.
Meghan: That is a good one. I like the Anne Hathaway crossover right there.
Colleen: Thank you. Thank you. I knew you'd appreciate it.
Meghan: Have you seen a picture of Anne Hathaway- Modern-day Anne Hathaway's husband?
Colleen: No.
Meghan: He looks like William Shakespeare.
Colleen: [gasp] Dun dun dun!
Meghan: I know. Um, I am going, you said it was 15-?
Colleen: 1562 is the year.
Meghan: I'm going to go with Mary, Queen of Scots to Henry Stuart.
Colleen: Oh, so close. It was Mary, Queen of Scots to Queen Elizabeth.
Meghan: What?!
Colleen: Now they were not, perhaps, gal pals.
Meghan: They were not gal pals!!!
Colleen: But this was linked to, like, the first-
Meghan: Elizabeth had her in prison her entire life!
Colleen: It was probably before that. Probably right before that. Number two. Today it is quite common to see a heart-shaped pizza for sale on Valentine's Day. When and where was the first recorded instance of heart-shaped pizza being sold? Was it A) In the late 1700s in Naples, Italy. B) In 1905 in a New York City pizza parlor run by Italian immigrants. C) 1955 at the Villa Capri in Los Angeles. Or D) The 1980s at the Rocky Rococo pizza chain nationwide? I've never heard of the Rocky- These are all real places.
Meghan: They are?
Colleen: I've never heard of the Rocky Rococo.
Meghan: I want to go with B.
Colleen: It was the Villa Capri. It was only- It was in the 50s. It was later than I thought. I was like, “Heart shape feels like an easy, a really good way to get people to spend the same or more amount of money for less amount of pizza because it doesn’t-”
Meghan: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Colleen: To make it fit in the box, it's got to be smaller.
Meghan: I'm getting very worried.
Colleen: I'm sorry. As usual, you can turn it around with the fifth question. I do like to build that in, just in case. But you got this. In Lucky Stiff, the musical farce, the first one I ever saw at my high school. It's so good. What is hidden in the heart-shaped box that gets carted around the world along with a dead body weekend at Bernie's style? Is it A) Six million bucks in diamonds, B) Six million bucks in cash, C) Six million tiny diamond studs, or D) An actual human heart? This is a farce.
Meghan: Can I get one eliminated?
Colleen: Yes.
Meghan: Do I get, like- I don't know what my powers are.
Colleen: You may eliminate one. I'm eliminating “C, Six million tiny diamond studs.”
Meghan: So the choices are six million.
Colleen: Six million in cash, six million in diamonds, or an actual human heart.
Meghan: I'm gonna go [with] six million in diamonds.
Colleen: I'm gonna give you half credit for that, because that's what they sing about the entire musical. And at the end, spoilers for Lucky Stiff, it is revealed it was the dead guy's heart the whole time. But the entire song [musical] it's “Six million bucks in diamonds in a heart shaped box.” It's a whole thing.
Meghan: So I have half a point.
Colleen: You have half a point, you're doing great. Half for three. Number four, silver coins from Cyrene in North Africa from the sixth and fifth centuries BCE are embossed with a heart shape to represent the seed and fruit of the Silphium plant. S-I-L-P-H-I-U-M, Silphium. What was the Silphium plant used as? A) An aphrodisiac, B) Medicine, C) A perfume, or D) A contraceptive.
Meghan: I'm gonna go with a contraceptive.
Colleen: Correct, and so are all of them. It was used for all of those things.
Meghan: Oh!
Colleen: It is a very versatile plant.
Meghan: Oh! Is it extinct now?
Colleen: I don't know.
Meghan: Because that, I know, happened a lot with, like, the Romans and stuff. They drove plants that were useful as, like, contraceptives- They drove them to extinction.
Colleen: That sounds right. Number five.
Meghan: All or nothing.
Colleen: All or nothing. Who coined the phrase “heart of hearts,” and, as a bonus, in what written work?
Meghan: I don't get any choices?
Colleen: I can make some up real quick. I thought it was someone you would know.
Meghan: I think I- Then, is it William Shakespeare?
Colleen: It is William Shakespeare.
Meghan: Okay!
Colleen: You have won the game. As a bonus, do you know the play?
Meghan: “Heart of hearts.” Can I get a clue if it's a tragedy or comedy?
Colleen: I was just gonna give you the clue: It is a tragedy.
Meghan: I wanna say King Lear.
Colleen: That's a really good guess, but it was Hamlet, in Act Three, Scene Two.
Meghan: Oh. Yeah. I got a lot wrong today.
Colleen: I'm sorry, this was harder than usual, but you did a really good job. I am actually surprised you don't know Lucky Stiff, because I feel like you know way more musicals than I do. Or at least maybe you've seen more than I have, and I just-
Meghan: I don't know, I feel like we're pretty even on them, just different ones.
Colleen: That's fair. Well, you have won your historical watch with a heart carved in it.
Meghan: Excellent.
Colleen: You've won the game and that's all that matters.
[Sound cue: Same eerie piano tune reminiscent of the Nancy Drew PC game soundtracks that played at the top of the episode, now extended to play underneath the rest of the episode.]
Meghan: Thank you so much for joining us on Me and You and Nancy Drew.
Colleen: This podcast is lovingly dedicated to the memory of my wonderful mother, Char, World's Best Mom, and the woman who got me hooked on sassy female detective stories. I also want to thank my brother Ben for creating most of our sound and music cues for this podcast. Thanks, Ben.
Meghan: You can check out our website, meandyouandnancydrew.com, for show transcripts, links to our social media, and our Patreon, where we'll post any images that we described during the podcast. Those will be visible to anyone without a paywall, so that we're not describing nebulous images that you can't see at home. But if you'd like to become a patron, there are various perks there, including outtakes or things that got cut for time, stickers, and cross-stitch patterns to create your own Drewseum at home, and more.
Colleen: Thank you, Meghan, for editing the podcast, doing a lot of research about podcast creation, and adding a few additional sound cues, as needed.
Meghan: Thank you, Colleen, for also editing the podcast, for transcribing it, and for helping create our logo.
Colleen: Thank you to our partners for all the support and love, and especially for lending us their microphones that they bought for a completely different purpose but said we could borrow once in a while.
Meghan: Thank you to libraries everywhere for giving access to Nancy Drew books and all the other books that we mentioned today, and just media of all kinds to people everywhere for free.
Colleen: And finally, thank you, of course, to Carolyn Keene for independently writing each of the Nancy Drew books from 1930 to modern day. We couldn't do this without you and your 613 individual novels.
Meghan: And don't forget the moral of this episode:
Colleen: “Be careful, you're on dangerous grounds.”
